Nevers Mumba: I'm still a man of God
Nevers Mumba addressing supporters after being elected MMD president in June 2012. |
He is a
charismatic and firebrand preacher, but in political circles, some still
consider Nevers Mumba a novice, that he once served as republican
vice-president notwithstanding. The 52-year-old is now among five candidates
poised to run for the MMD presidency at the party’s convention later this year.
He talked to Jack Zimba about his political ambition and vision for Zambia.
You
came on the scene preaching salvation to this country – proclaiming ‘Zambia
shall be saved’. Is that still your vision or has your message to Zambia changed
these days?
As a young man, the
Lord laid a burden on my heart for this country. And the burden was to instill
justice, fairness, integrity and the fear of God in our country. The vision
that I have for Zambia is that, I believe that the introduction of godly values
in every sector of our society provides an opportunity to create a community
that is responsible, a leadership that is responsive; a country that has values
upon which you could develop. So when I say Zambia shall be saved, I’m not only
talking about people coming to Christ and becoming born-again Christians, that
is just part of it. But the ‘Zambia shall be saved’ theme is a dream I carry
upon my heart that someday this country shall bow its knee to the lordship of
Christ in every sector. I think that God is big enough to be the Lord of our
nation, rather than just our spiritual lives. God desires to be involved in the
justice system of our country; God desires to be involved in the way the rich
treat the poor and I think my message is meant to lift the underprivileged and
the down-trodden and those probably who may not have a voice to speak for
themselves.
Many
people came to know and associate Nevers Mumba with the fiery preaching and
healing ministry. You were the man of God at the time…are you still a man of
God?
I’m in politics
because I’m a man of God. I think that without the witness and the presence of
God in my life, I would not have taken the jump to get involved in the
political process. As a Christian and church leader, I felt greatly burdened
when I looked at the injustices in the country. And it was my love for God that
prompted this burden to develop for the poor and underprivileged. If I wasn’t a
man of God, then probably I would not be feeling this passion for my people and
for my country. And I do not think I can do this work without the presence of
God in my life. Whatever I do has its origin from the relationship that I have
with God. Every speech that I make in the political arena has its roots on some
biblical value or principle. Christianity and my faith in God plays a major
role in my political career.
There
are still some people who think you could have made a bigger contribution to
the country as a preacher rather than a politician. Are you sure you heard from
God about being president of this country?
Firstly I don’t think
there is any human being who can assume that… He just wakes up in the morning
and says, Jack I think you would have made a better person if you had become a
carpenter. I think that’s not the right of any other person except God and that
person. I have been privileged that God called me to preach when I was very
young and enjoyed the benefits of being his servant on a daily basis. I still
remain his servant because my goal is to improve the quality of life of my
generation and that is God’s will for my life. And so I have not abandoned the
ministry of preaching, and I preach as often as I can, but I think that I’m
carrying a heavier and additional load and that is to instill morality and
integrity in the politics of our country. And I do not think that the only way
to become effective is to just remain on the pulpit; there are many people that
are in the pulpit right now and they are making an impact within their own
world, but I think that the path I’ve chosen is targeting the nation and
nations to instill the fear of God, justice and fair play. And by being in the
political process not only do you preach justice and fair play, but you
actually get the ability and opportunity to put your hands on policy-making and
those policies are going to be based on Godly principles. I’m very happy with
where I’m and it’s the greatest joy of my life to serve Him in the political
process.
Now
of course you’ve had some big appointments – the biggest one was as
vice-president – but also you’ve had some big disappointments arising from
those same appointments. Is it not time to give up?
You have just
described life to me. One day you’re in the valley, the other day you’re on the
mountaintop. The two points that are as diverse as the mountain and the valley
actually constitute life. In the absence of that you are really not living,
either you’re dead or you’re not born yet. I think that my experience of being
appointed to high places is part of life and I had the honour and privilege of
serving in those roles. I look back and I’m totally grateful to God for those
opportunities. When the season came to an end and I had to give up those
positions – or was forced to give up those positions – the Lord always had
something for me to do; to pursue my vision of “Zambia shall be saved”. This is
a vision that cannot be bound just to one role or one position, it’s my life.
Wherever my life is, it represents that vision of Zambia shall be saved. So
that is just a description of what life is, valleys and mountains and it only
appears to me that I’m hardly in-between. It’s either I’m right on top or at
the bottom.
Where
are you right now?
I’m on my way to the
top.
What
makes you think the MMD is the right vehicle to carry you to State House?
I’m part of the MMD
and that gives me the right and privilege of standing for any office within the
party. Is it the right vehicle? I think the MMD is the most national party in
this country. There is no other party that is so nationally representative as
the MMD. It has never dubbed as a regional party because it embraces everybody.
And MMD is the party that really engineered and mothered democracy and up to
the last day of being in power, MMD demonstrated its commitment to the
philosophy and principles of democracy. So I think in many ways it has a lot of
positives, but just like any party or individual, it also has some negatives,
but I would rather focus on its strengths and work those strengths in order to
bring the party back into government.
Do
you really believe that the MMD will ever bounce back to power and what makes
you think that you are the right captain to steer this ship back into the waters?
I think we can only
answer that question by using history. History has it on record that populism is
very short-lived. Politics of populism, which by the way ushered in our current
government, through popular promises of money in your pockets in ninety days,
housing provision in ninety days, provision of jobs in ninety days, that kind
of populism brings a lot of excitement. When the current president made it
clear he was going to throw out the Chinese because they were mistreating our
people, everyone was happy that we were going to get our resources back in our
hands. But as you can see, all these that I have talked about have not been
achieved in ninety days. And so I call PF a populist party using populist
theories and messages to get into office. Such parties don’t last long unless
they reform while in government and become parties of vision. This is four
months later, I don’t see any witness of that. That in itself gives me
confidence that it is possible for the MMD to come back.
Am I the right person
to steer this ship? I would like to believe that the party itself, in
considering my candidature, is looking at my history and performance in the
past. Not only have I raised a church ministry from scratch to making it into
an international ministry.
You
describe the PF as a populist party, I wonder if the same can’t be said about
you. I mean you go to places and people celebrate you because you’re eloquent.
Yes, I may be
eloquent and articulate issues well, but I’m not a populist. I don’t make
promises that I know cannot fulfill.
Some
people have predicted a major split within the MMD, especially after the
convention. Do you fear that their predictions might come true?
Anytime you have
people wanting to run for office and they have supporters in the party, they
always have in the back of their mind a feeling of risk that maybe when we get
to the convention there might be a problem of unity and this is where I’m
encouraging my colleagues in the National Executive Committee to start the work
of galvanizing the candidates and the members to become one.
What
do you make of the corruption fight by the Sata government of which you are
also the subject?
If going by what I’m
accused of, is what they are calling the fight against corruption, then it’s a
bogus fight. They might have some genuine cases out there, but if going by what
they are saying I’ve done and I’m corrupt, I have serious questions on the
legitimacy of this fight.
You
have changed political parties before and some people look at you as a
political opportunist out to grab the MMD presidency on a silver platter…
If this is what they
call silver platter, then I think they don’t know what they’re talking about. And
you see, I have only changed political parties once and that was when my party,
the National Citizens Coalition, entered into a coalition with the MMD under
President Mwanawasa. And that was because President Mwanawasa liked what I
stood for – integrity and morality in governance. Mr Sata himself has changed
political parties more than me. First he was in UNIP and then MMD before he
formed the Patriotic Front. And to say that I’m an opportunist is, I think,
saying too much.
There
seems to be some animosity between you and President Sata that I think most
people do not understand, especially that the two of you come from almost the
same area. Where does this stem from?
Right from the
beginning, unsolicited, the President raised some of the most devastating
issues about me that were very, very upsetting. You know, when you don’t steal
and somebody says you’ve stolen, they’re really crossing you. And then they say
it on the Internet where the whole world reads it…and my work is international;
my friends are all over the world because I preach around the world, and for
somebody to be that careless about another person’s reputation is very unfair.
To take you back, every time President Sata criticised me, whether it was in
the opposition or in government, I never used to answer him and I made it very
clear that Mr Sata was my elder brother and it would be improper for me to be
answering him.
Mr Sata’s dislike for
me was there when he worked with president [Frederick] Chiluba; he criticised
me when I was in the church; he criticised me when I came into the opposition
and he was in government; when I got into government and he got into the opposition
he criticised me as vice-president very viciously. When I got into the
opposition together with him he still criticised me; and now when he has become
president and I’m in the opposition he is still targeting me. So to answer your
question, I don’t know his problem. But all I want to say to him is, back off.
If
you fail to become MMD president; what next?
There is always
something that God wants me to do because God has invested in me, not in a
position. God has placed something in me, and that is what I will continue to
pursue.
This story was
published in 2012
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